President Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by TIME, Jan 20, 2017.

  1. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Great analogy John...
    And yes, i lost some respect, especially for your boy Donald. All he will do to his Saudi buddies is wag a finger.
     
  2. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    How about now? Still selfishly think how much that moron "helps" the evonomy?
     
  3. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure what you're alluding to.

    Selfishly ?
     
  4. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    You know. We all have reasons. Selfish ones.

    At some point you have to see the bigger picture.

    And I allude to sinagogue shooting. Do I need to connect the dots?

    The line is pretty simple. Trump claims caravans. His cronies ask who funds the caravans. His cronies name several Jewish "suspects".

    Shooter specifically refers to caravans and those who funds then as a threat.

    Ugh...

    P.S.

    I know he said he wasn't Trump supporter. Doesn't matter. At some point the instigator should be held accountable for the crimes of morons in the crowd.
     
  5. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    I have no doubt this will get spun. I don't care.

    At this point, from my point of view, if you support him, you are selfishly closing your eyes to all the crap that has been happening.

    Regardless, I care only about not letting this thread to not sink.

    May be one day it'll serve as a sad reminder of mistakes made.
     
  6. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    I fail to see the connection between a shooting and the economy under Trump.

    Maxine Watters calls for Democrats to attack in restaraunts. Eric Holder said when Republicans go low to kick them. Hillary Clinton said they will be civil if they win House or Senate. But ignore those, Trump wants to protect Americans and enforce our laws and that's racist.

    Honestly, I don't understand liberal logic.
     
  7. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    There is no connection to economy. There is a connection between Trump and horrible s*** happening.

    At what point are you going to come out and say -- yes, may be he did some good for the economy, but it is not worth it because: international relations, gender equality, racism, getting giddy and friendly with all sorts of dictators...

    And that's even without discussing whether there is an actual causation on the economy front (which I don't care to have).

    But you know, I am not young or naive. I have no faith in anyone who supported Trump to ever do it. Just the way it goes.

    Probably would have been the same the other way around.
     
  8. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Gender equality and racism? What has Trump done to set back gender equality? All those police shooting blacks and the riots happened under what president? Or are we just blaming him for slavery and everything after that ?

    Media is powerful. Very powerful.
     
  9. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Are you kidding me? Condescend much?

    You don't think his ACTUAL misogyny and sex scandals that go without so much as tangible backlash serve as an empowerment device? Same for his ACTUAL, documented lack of desire to actually condemn s*** like KKK marches (see "both sides are to blame" or however he put it) and attacks?

    Or stupid, moronic s*** like, let's give guns to teachers to prevent school shootings? The entier f***ing world stands in amazement on these and you think it is somehow us being brainwashed by the media?

    Has nothing to do with media. I see the f***ing interviews, read the f***ing tweets. Don't forget, I am not american, so I get my news from other, much more impartial source too.
     
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  10. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Also, how about Cesar Sayoc and the pipe bombs? I mean, at what point are you going to actually hold your president responsible for the things he says and for the way he acts?

    Are all the people who act/empowered as a result to blame and he isn't even a little? Or do you not accept that there is even a connection or impact?
     
  11. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Trump is a self-centered, media obsessed POS. He couldn’t be bothered to mention the people bombs got sent to by name, he continued to blame the media for creating an environment that led to them getting bombs sent. He riles people up ar his rally with anti-media and anti-Hillary stuff instead of telling people to cool it for at least a bit to try and calm the atmosphere out there. Then after the synagogue shooting he’s asked about gun control and he says it wouldn’t have been as bad or have happened if someone inside was armed, my god does he not have a brain?

    He’s delusional, going around saying the media shouldn’t be allowed to say whatever they want about him. This sort of thing is how Hitler got started, because people sat back as he continued to say crazier and crazier things while his supporters got louder and louder and more emboldened. Trump is a nut job, he’s taking our county backwards in many dangerous ways, and he’s starting to gain pretty much full control of the Fox News side of the media, which is also dangerous. I’m not even political, but this man is a lunatic and he’s running our country, he’s the worst president I’ve ever seen, and he’s making us look foolish to the entire world. We can’t let this happen a 2nd time, he’s got to go next election.
     
  12. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    "We all agree on the need to better secure the border, and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants. We are a generous and welcoming people here in the United States but those who enter the country illegally and those who employ them disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those following the law. We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country."
    -- President Trump

    I'm sorry, but I just don't see anything wrong with this.
     
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  13. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Dude, just LOL.

    [
    [​IMG]
    Donald J. Trump

    ✔@realDonaldTrump

    I am watching the Democrat Party led (because they want Open Borders and existing weak laws) assault on our country by Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, whose leaders are doing little to stop this large flow of people, INCLUDING MANY CRIMINALS, from entering Mexico to U.S.....

    And there was more. But sure, chose what is convenient .
     
  14. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Zen master, what country are you from? What are your countries border / immigration policies??

    You have strong opinions for someone not living here.
     
  15. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    I live in Israel. Perhaps you are familiar with my country's border issues? Yours is nothing but a child's play.

    There is a very strict policy. The immigration is limited, basically to Jews. There are illegal immigrants and we try to deal with them... Sometimes well, sometimes really badly.

    We can discuss that, if you wish. Probably over PM.

    This has nothing to do with my point. Your president openly instigated against a bunch of people seeking asylum. Claimed, and later retracted, that many are criminals. All the while a ility to seek asylum in the US is basically a law in your country and is given to anyone able to approach the US embassy or border control. These claims are then verified and either granted or denied.

    Your president basically instigated against s people seeking asylum, when, at that point no US law had been broken. This triggered a bunch of s*** on Fox. And then escalated into the social media and right-wingers.

    Do you not see the connection? Do you claim there is not one?

    Now, add that this is not an isolated incident...

    Regardless of his views, the POTUS has a moral responsibility. Many moral and ethical responsibilities.

    One of these is to understand that his/her words have an impact. And take responsibility for them.

    P.S.

    I don't understand why is this so hard to comprehend?

    You, the POTUS, want to change existing policies? Fine. It's your right to do so via the appropriate constitutional process.

    You can't however, do this via the social media, clearly understanding that for a very many avid nationalists your words are a validation for their actions.

    Goddamit.
     
  16. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    A guy from a country who has walls around it complaining that our president wants walls around it.

    These thousands are all seeking asylum? You talked to each of them? Or the media told you that? And why don't they seek it in Mexico? I'll ask again, why don't they seek it in Mexico?
     
  17. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Typical "but what about..." response. You are dodging the issue.

    I didn't talk to them. Neither did your POTUS. He claimed, AND RETRACTED, the statement about them being criminals (at least to AFAIR; may be he didn't really retract). All I know is that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to approach the US border / or other representatives, and ask for asylum.

    Still, that is not the point I am making.

    The issue is NOT the policy. Change it however the f*** you want. Democracy is being upheld, as long as these changes are within constitution and law. Democrats will know to do better next time. Or they won't. Build the damn wall and put a sniper on it every 200 feet if that's what you decide.

    The issue is the PUBLIC instigation by the POTUS. Lack of responsibility or consequences (political or social; his supporters just do not care) for what comes out of his mouth. Do you agree that there is one? Do you think there is no connection between his words and tweets and how the nationalist crowd acts?

    You don't have to answer. But if you do, refer to the point, not some unrelated issue in a different country.
     
  18. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm a nationalist. Served 24 years because I believe America is exceptional. Everyone else can have pride in their nationality or race, but the minute a white American does it, it's racist. Trump is putting America first. I applaud him for that.

    You can be bent out of shape about everything Trump does. I don't really care. 2 more years until 4 more years. Deal with it.
     
  19. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    LOL. Why would you bother to respond then... Alas... I knew that's what is going to happen.

    And you response is precisely why I used the word "selfishly".
     
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  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Zen, this is a wildly interesting point you're making.

    Firstly, most liberal people (the loudest voices at the moment) would abhor your view on the wall. Most assume a wall is a detriment to the country, a symbol of racism, and a waste of time/tax payer dollars. Support of the wall is linked with racism and intolerance and standing against American values.

    Secondly, I think the argument needs vastly more nuance than you're giving credit for. Personally, I didn't vote for Trump. I find him obnoxious and unsuitable to be President. I find his attacks on the media to be concerning and I actually do agree that he shows a tendency towards past dictators in the way he can sow discord. His lack of empathy and tact are what make him a disgrace to the office, not necessarily his politics. I do however think that he's done some good things and I think his war on the media is just that: a war. The media attacks him as much or more than he attacks them. I've seen direct quotes misrepresented, I've seen stories purposely not covered, and I've seen words twisted in ways that make me very uncomfortable.

    Thirdly, I think using Trump as a boogie man OR a call to action is a cop out for people who are inherently inclined to be ***holes. I've seen nearly as much intolerance towards Trump and his supporters as I've seen from Trump and his supporters, maybe more even. Hell, your posts in this thread a great example of it. How much of his policies or his actions do you actually follow?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...t-hes-done-20-things-right-column/1258575002/

    Here's a good list of things he's done "right". I agree with many of them. The tax cuts have been a tremendous boon to the economy and I think we're reaching a point where it's clear what he's doing is helping the economy and can be rightfully credited to him. Unemployment is down nation-wide. He's tried to tackle opioides and by extension got into Big Pharma a bit (although that needs far, far more work). He opened dialogue with North Korea and got them to disarm their Nuclear program. If Obama had done that, what would the reaction have been? Hell if Bush had done that, he'd have been given an award of some sort. There are many things he's done right in office that are either spun as negative or are simply not covered. He's discredited almost immediately for things he's done too and thus the war with the media rages on.

    All that said, again: I don't like Trump. I think it'd be difficult to have a civil conversation with him on any topic. He certainly does breed toxicity in a way that's alarming after the milk-warm presidency of Obama who was incredibly likable, but didn't accomplish much besides Universal Healthcare which was rushed and has been a disastrous roller coaster.

    I think it's unfair for any nation to cast stones at Trump while he fights his own media, his own ego, and the rest of the world as well. In some ways, that's admirable (even though a good portion of it is self-inflicted). Even so, who are the European countries to judge? Brexit is raging on. Greece is an economic dumpster fire. Italy is an economic s*** show. It's not like Europe is a paragon of health and prosperity. The Scandinavian countries are closest, but not every country is as small or sparsely populated. I'm not convinced what works there works everywhere else in the world.
     
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