To Serve And Protect

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by Barnstable, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    20 shots.......
     
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  2. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I'm not trying to insult those like Kuz who love to bring up the "better training" excuse, but I doubt they're aware that many police departments have spent thousands of dollars on training before these officers are even allowed to walk the streets with a badge in their hand. For example, every LAPD academy graduate costs the city of Los Angeles $250,000. How much more $$ are the taxpayers of Los Angeles supposed to pony up to pay for better training? Some people simply don't have what it takes to do police work.
     
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  3. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    You can have better training without spending more money.
     
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  4. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    You may be right in theory. But how? You're going to have to hire new people to implement these "improved" techniques to replace the old ones. These new instructors will obviously want to be paid more for their services. New technology costs more than old technology. Unless the LAPD is the last police academy in the country to adopt these techniques, they're probably going to have to pay a lot more $$ for early adoption.

    Better training only works if the police officers are fit to do their job. I could hire Tim Grover to get me in the best shape of my life, but I still won't cut it as an NBA player. At some point, police apologists need to admit that some people shouldn't be cops.
     
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  5. Azndude2190

    Azndude2190 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Like any other situation in life, reprioritize the budget, fire those who aren't in alignment with the new philosophy and tactics and look for good examples elsewhere.

    You could probably also scale back the amount of peace officers honestly. There are police agencies all across the US that have overlapping legal jurisdiction. Here in LA, we have LAPD, LACSD, CHP, UC Police, and Cal State Police.

    And yes, some people aren't mean't to be police officers. Personally, I don't think you should be one if you aren't willing to take some risk with your life.
     
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  6. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I agree with you about too many police officers and overlapping jurisdictions. I'm skeptical about the idea of a government agency "reprioritizing the budget" and cleaning house on their own. Government agencies and programs rarely do this unless they have a gun to their head. They often advocate for spending more of the taxpayer's money.
     
  7. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I’m a believer in training. I think training and by the right people teach us how to be calm and cool during time of chaos. But no amount of training will fix these types of situations. It’s literally on the fly, with only seconds to spare and for you to decide if the person has a weapon or not... and again, when a agency screws up, I’ll say the screwed up. Sacramento screwed up.

    The family is gonna get it’s payday for their screwed up son. It’s becoming harder and harder to police, and situations like these, Where it gets turned into a racial/police brutality issue, doesn’t help.
     
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm with dav on this:

    Reprioritize mental health with police officers. More training on stressful situations. I absolutely agree on a more stringent process for screening. I know many cops and there are a lot of heroes in the mix. There's also a number of idiots and guys that don't deserve it. I'd also agree with less officers. Instead, let's dedicate those resources to new processes that are designed to self-police the police. Better internal investigations and more accountability to make sure the wrong people are weeded out.

    Probably the most important though is a re-commitment to the community. Outreach, volunteering, organized events, townhall meetings with community leaders, a complete dedication to the community instead of developing a fear/adversarial relationship with their areas. I know there's already these sorts of events, but the efforts need to be redoubled.
     
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  9. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I'm actually for more Police, especially in the areas that are riddled with crimes because of Gangs, drug presence, etc... Less police makes it much harder to keep any sort of tabs on these communities, its already hard enough.

    But again, speaking from my agency, we're a well trained department that gets training in all kinds of things. Mental health, active shooter, scenarios, different use of force options. I swear we don't get paid enough for this job sometimes with all stuff we are trained in and the stuff we know. I'd say we're pretty good whether we decide if we're gonna press an issue. For instance:

    We had a guy shooting off rounds in his house, we surrounded the house and tried to evacuate houses in the nearby area. We tried to get the guy to come out but he didn't, so we just backed out, left the area and kinda kept watch for the house to see if the guy would ever come out. There was really no reason to press the issue, he was dangerous if we pressed the issue, but not really placing others in danger, only damaging his own house. If we got into a gunfight with this guy, who knows who else was inside, and who was in the area that could be struck by stray bullets.

    Police dept should really look into our program and get the training that we have.
     
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  10. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm glad you're confident in your workforce. I wish every workforce was efficient and well trained, but we know that's not the case.

    I just watched the Flint Michigan documentary and one that popped out is in an area that was as recently as 2017 deemed the poorest city in the nation, they had only 4 squad cars for 100 thousand people. That's not going to cut it. Then there are other areas like my hometown La Crescenta where they have something like 8+ squad cars for a really small town. There's hardly ever a problem in that small city and they over police at times just to make sure they're doing something. The area is also covered by CHP at times and is a double area zone for the Glendale police department so they'll often come through as well.

    It's all relative to the location of course and my ideas are on a macro scale. If your department is doing well, then great! No changes necessary.
     
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  11. jlkr

    jlkr - Rookie -

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    I have a simple solution: all civil settlements need to come out of the department's budget. If it's their own budgets that risk getting cut by large settlements, you know darn well commissioners will lead the charge to clean up their forces. While LAPD and LASD can self-insure, smaller police departments should be allowed to buy insurance. Premiums paid are public as are all settlement numbers so we'd know what insurance companies think. LEO's who are convicted of felony crime(s) committed on the job should forfeit their entire pension. When it's their rice bowl that is directly threatened, they'll come around.
     
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  12. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Crooked cops should probably face a publicly broadcasted firing squad on pay per view with proceeds benefitting the victims of the wrongdoing

    :Crazyartest:

    Oh, and the ones firing the guns are the victims too. Preferably untrained so it takes several shots to get the job done.

    I’m going back to sleep. That’s a really sick idea. I must be having a bad day.
     
  13. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    That is not the solution to any problem. There is civil litigation against' police departments even when use of force was used reasonably. Every legitimate shooting has settlements because its cheaper to settle real quick rather than go through the courts and dish out more. Every use of force there is a civil suit waiting for the upcoming months. You'd bankrupt police dept's and probably the city. You'd have mass amount of police officers resigning because of that hostile environment and the areas that are already crime riddled with lack of personnel will suffer more. I understand where you're coming from, but that's not a solution, at all. You'll just make the career of law enforcement even less appealing, and less and less applicants, and less and less cops.

    Even incidents such as the one in Sacramento... In the eyes of the law, its a legitimate shooting. They will not be criminally prosecuted. Aiming for their pensions, and police budgets? You'd just be crippling the police departments, and it'll create a chain effect where ultimately the citizens suffer.
     
  14. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Cop beats his daughter in school and the office workers sit by and do nothing.



    Disturbing surveillance camera footage has been released that shows a police officer confronting his daughter after she was sent to the principal’s office for disrespecting her teacher—and his response is so violent that it has even led to criticism from advocates of corporal punishment.

    Footage from the incident, which occurred in March, shows Officer Raymond Emilio Rosario entering the school office. Moments later, his 14-year-old daughter entered, and he immediately slapped her across the face and then hit the back of her head. Surprisingly, the officer’s violent actions didn’t seem the faze the office secretary who never moved from her seat.

    Rage continued from Rosario in front of everyone in the office and anyone who may have witnessed it while walking by the office’s glass doors. The enraged officer pushed his daughter’s head to the side, grabbed his belt and began whipping her with his belt. The humiliation of being whipped in public was followed by a slap to the face and finally a closed-fist punch to the jaw.

    While Rosario may have been attempting to discipline his daughter, the manner in which he did so, crossed the line between what is legal and what is criminal. As a result, days later his fellow boys in blue arrested him and charged him with child abuse.

    At the time of the attack, not one member of Pinecrest Grove Preparatory Academy intervened to stop the angry officer or to call 911 for assistance as they watched the child get slapped, punched, whipped and have her hair pulled by the man who was supposed to protect her from such abuses. However, according to a report from Miami’s ABC News 10, school officials did notify Rosario’s superiors, and the officer turned himself into Turner Guilford Knight Correctional Center.

    Rosario was charged with “child abuse with no great bodily harm,” and was suspended with pay. However, presumably, if a parent had beaten, assaulted, whipped, and pulled their child’s hair in the school office, one could bet the outcome for that citizen would have been quite different. Not only would police have arrested such a parent, there is a great chance they would also be tased, cuffed, and stuffed into a squad car.

    None of that happened to the career officer, of course, leading many to conclude there is simply a double standard for police officers. It is unclear if Rosario was on duty at the time the assault took place. If he was on duty, it poses a different scenario. Where else in America can someone regularly beat another person and be allowed to continue cashing in a paycheck? All too often, when police officers are clearly guilty of crimes, such as the one the closed circuit cameras caught Rosario committing, they are given a paid vacation until the smoke clears and they are allowed to return to work.

    However well-intentioned the parent may have been, Rosario engaged in a myriad of faux pas. Not only did he scream at his daughter, a female, but he slapped, beat, whipped, and pulled her hair. The old saying goes, “You never know what goes on behind closed doors.We can only imagine, if Rosario behaves this way in public, there is no telling what he does to the poor child in private.
     
  15. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    ^^^ When the secretary looks at him, he points for her to either look at something or look away. When she does, he punches his daughter.

    My blood is boiling.
     
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  16. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    What bothers me is that he did this in public view without any fear. As if he thought there would be no consequences for his actions.
     
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  17. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I don't blame the two women in the office for not intervening. We couldn't hear anything but I'm sure they knew he as a cop and that dude would be scary to confront in that state. It would have been great if someone was brave enough to try to stand in between him and his daughter but I really wouldn't expect it in that circumstance.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
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  18. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    Good thing this happened for the girl's sake. Who knows how long this has gone on in private. At least now with the public outrage, she knows she will have recourse if this is handled correctly (If she's paying attention)

    However, at a young age my dad beat the crap out of me and left my backside full of bruises up and down my tailbone and back from kicking me since he had injured his shoulder. My brother saw the bruises, and said something. My dad asked me not to tell anyone, and to this day, I wish I had. The reality is the whole family would have benefited from him experiencing some consequences for his actions when he was out of control. But if no one says anything to someone that can do something, nothing ever happens. At least now there is video evidence.
     
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  19. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Seems a little excessive to me. Calling all cars, we’ve got 65 year old black woman on the loose!




    It’s not that bad until later into the video, but that stuff felt entirely unnecessary, there’s always that cop who the power can’t help but go to their head isn’t there? I’ve seen way too many stories of this sort lately.
     
  20. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    She was combative and uncooperative. The thing is I've seen waaaaaaay too many white people be way more combative to officers and nothing happens to them. I'm not saying every time a back person is combative the officers escalate the situation but they seem to take way more s*** from white people and are a lot less likely to arrest them an especially get physical with a granny.
     
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